Friday (Nov. 10), Eminem released his grim single “Walk on Water,” which called on Beyoncé for the tuneful assist. The track will appear on his forthcoming studio album, Revival. Hours later, a podcast hosted by the legendary Rick Rubin and award-winning author Malcolm Gladwell debuted called Broken Record​, featuring a conversation with Em to discuss a multitude of topics.

Rubin, who co-produced “Walk on Water,” spoke to the fact that there’s a new wave of hip-hop that doesn't stand for the same things Eminem believes in. Rick said, “I could see [Eminem] was frustrated by it,” in reference to the modern revelation of “mumble rap.”

Shady had high praise for Tupac, saying, "He always knew the right words to say on the right chords. I studied that so much and he was so genius at doing it. He never said the wrong thing on the wrong chord. Go listen to “Dear Mama,” every bar was so in place where it should be. He was so smart about picking his beats. Tupac always said feel me and you have to feel him and not just hear him.”

The 45-year-old reflected on the career crossroads he’s currently battling: “When you start out in your career you have a blank canvas, so you can paint anywhere you want. Then your second album comes out and you paint a little more, but by the time you get to your seventh and eighth album there’s nowhere to paint. People are always expecting something different from you.”

Before the conversation came to an end, Rubin dropped a gem about how he brought “Walk on Water” to JAY-Z, who then got his wife to sing the chorus on the Skylar Grey co-written song. Em and Grey performed the song on the 2017 MTV EMAs together, and they'll bring it to Saturday Night Live on Nov. 18.