The classical music industry is often trying to prove it's not stuck in the past but this week two British orchestras have been dusting off their walkers in a bid to retain the title of oldest orchestra.
The Hallé Orchestra has been forced to relinquish its claim as the UK's longest-established permanent professional orchestra after an investigation by the Advertising Standards Agency (ASA).
The investigation came after an anonymous complaint was made.
The Manchester-based Hallé was founded in 1858 and has always used the description on its marketing materials. But the ASA ruled that its northern rival the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra (RLPO) (founded in 1840) was the older.
The orchestra said it was disappointed by the ruling and has changed the wording on its website but would continue to be a "forward-looking" organisation.
The Hallé, directed by Sir Mark Elder CBE, won two awards at this year's Gramophone Awards, the choral and contemporary prizes for recordings on its own label and the NMC label.