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Your breakthrough came with the next album, "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)." In some ways, the title track seems like it was written about your industry experiences, with lines like: "Some of them want to use you/Some of them want to get used by you."

Well, we'd been through the mill. We went to write; it was a very tense and weird dynamic between us -- the tension coming from me. We'd had a bit of a fight and I was, like, sulking in the corner somewhere, terribly angst-ridden and all that. And Dave came out with that rhythm, and I came in with the "du du du du du du" [Hums main riff]. And it's very edifying when I think about this: Before a song comes, you think it's [terrible], everything's crap: "I can't do it. Who am I fooling?" And then all of sudden, it's there [Snaps her fingers].

Have you heard Marilyn Manson's version?

No, I never did. I wasn't that curious, really. I think people like Marilyn Manson have to exist. The only problem with Marilyn Manson -- Marilyn, if you're listening to this [Laughs] -- is, how do you outdo Marilyn? How do you out-Marilyn Marilyn? Where do you end up? Because at the end you're a parody, unfortunately. The sting does leave your tail after a while. So the only perverse thing that Marilyn probably could do is straighten up. If I were him that's what I would do, and that's a good career move [Laughs].

This is where your video success started.

Yeah, [video] was a whole new phenomenon. I didn't know about video. Then we heard about it and said, "That's a good idea." I loved it. I thought, "This is a way for me to be the many mes that I think I am."

By and large, I am quite -- well, there are many sides to me, somehow it seems. One seems to be that I'm very, very shy and fairly reclusive -- and I do admit to that -- and the other side is that I'm an exhibitionist if there's a platform to do it, which has been music and performance -- because I'm not an exhibitionist if it were just, "Come to look at me."

Did you ever write a song thinking it was going to make a great video?

Afterwards, maybe, but when it's all done and dusted, you're just so grateful that you were able to write one, to be honest. It's a very odd thing to want to do. It's coming from nowhere: You can't see it, you can't smell it, you can't touch it. You're looking at a blank page, and you're thinking, "What is it I'm trying to do?" You're trying to realize who you are through the songs. Also, you're trying to explain yourself, see yourself, and redefine whatever it is that you take on.

Music has always been about making a connection and trying to find a way to feel less alone.

Absolutely. Connectedness. Let's face it, the urban society that we are presently living in, it doesn't matter how much money you have. I've felt that I was on the outside most of my life. I did as a child, I did as an adolescent, I did as a grown-up. And then when I discovered, boom, "Oh, yeah, artist," it was like, "Oh, I found myself here." I can be an alien, but I must belong to the tribe of artists, whoever they are. They don't really belong to anywhere, but they're passing through and I can join with the other aliens.

After years of struggling, "Sweet Dreams" really took you to another level.

I'll say, but there'd been a buildup. Three albums with [the Tourists]. Another album [as Eurythmics]. So four albums, this is the fifth. But that's cool. It doesn't just happen overnight. And if it does happen overnight, big problem. I don't think it's a gift to be shot up to Mars [suddenly]. I don't think it does a human being a great deal of good.

Were you prepared for success when it came?

Look, it's like this: It was like a big, big, big door we'd been hammering on, and it finally opened. My reaction when those doors opened, I suppose, was terrifying, because you are there. It's a hell of a thing to cope with. It's not normal.

It seems like the fame was a byproduct of creating the music and that if you could have avoided it, you would have been happier.

[Nodding] You don't need that. You don't need that, but some people do. I'm not saying I'm right, but it has to be seen for what it is. You know, a whole bunch of inflated egos get away with some pretty horrific stuff. Misogyny is endorsed, violence, disgusting behavior toward our fellow man . . . it is worrying when you've got kids, because they [are exposed] to it.

Years ago on PBS, there was a series about fame hosted by Clive James, and the whole premise was that to achieve lasting fame, you have to die so the legacy can begin.

Iconic figures that can be on cheap posters on people's walls. And I don't buy into that. I have to say I have an image in my mind, and it's a very strong one. I was at something like a VH1 awards ceremony, and Nirvana came on and they were playing. This was an industry thing. And at the end of the song, the drummer got off the riser and trashed the drums, and the guitarist trashed the guitar, and when I looked at it, I saw the image of bluebottles, or little flies, inside a bell jar that were hitting themselves up against the bell jar, not being able to escape. In the midst of the corporate culture and you smash your guitar, I'm sorry, you've been taken; you've been had already.

That's a fairly cynical look at it.

No, it's the pragmatic side of me. It's not even cynical; I'm not even going there. It's just what I see.

At this point, your career becomes focused on creating this image of you that is ever-changing. There was also the dichotomy of exposing yourself through your lyrics, while remaining somewhat a mystery. For example, on the cover of the Eurythmics' third album -- "Touch," released in 1984 -- you're wearing a mask. You also look androgynous and are flexing your muscles. You're fooling around with our traditional images of beauty.

That was me. Let me go into the realm of being a woman artist in a man's world. I thought, "If you can't beat them, join them" or "I will be as powerful as a man." I wasn't, and I still don't think I am. I'm a great deal older than I was then, and I've been through a great deal more and a lot more sort of inner questioning. But there is the short haircut, the muscle stance, the mask. That part has always interested me. You're very exposed. You bare your soul when you write songs; you expose yourself as an artist to the world. You are very vulnerable, so you have to come back stronger. I'm not the normal conventional, cute girl singer. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not conventionally beautiful. Maybe it's just a picture of me, of where I was at the time. For me it says a lot -- it's kind of obvious, really, and it did kind of make an impression.

Most writers thrive on being able to observe anonymously. Was it harder for you to write the less you were able to be the fly on the wall?

It's always been hard to write, no matter what. That's why Dave and I were good. I felt the partnership was a strong one. What I had to offer had a limit, and then he would come in and put in his bit and we'd come up with something strong. I like working in partnership with people. It is hard working on one's own.

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